Nautiker

I wasn't aware the US belongs to the list of countries where you have to get alcohol from a liquor store (or at least we did not see any in supermarkets).

and I wasn't aware that there are hills in Manhattan outside of Central Park! (these two children are helping a lady up the incline, though not for the steepness but because she kept taking photos of water towers...)

I wrote it was a good decision to walk towards the Empire State beause we came through an area we had never intended of visiting, and I doubt it features in a lot of guidebooks, either. very quiet and relaxed, slightly run down now and then but not unpleasantly so. this building caught my eye. I still struggle to make sense of that staircase, as it is definitely by design, however there is just no other element on the facade that picks up on this folly...
as before: it's a 360°-city...


...and outside/inside:




corner 5th/W31: I enjoy spotting buildings like this one. there is so much character in the way the windows are divided. such a subtle way to add beauty to architecture at very little cost.



aah, damn, Flatiron is in scaffoldings. remembering I read it was scheduled for restoration works but we hadn't drawn the obvious conclusion. enjoyed a short break on the park benches of Madison Square, then it was time for a change: subway northbound to E86th.

Fra_Diavolo

Think you might have enjoyed having this book with you:

nycguy10002

Wow - you really got around that day.

To answer your question - I have only been on 2 other forums - One was Yahoo!! Answers (which was discontinued a number of years back and another whose name I don't remember (which is also no longer in existence). In Fodors i tend to stay in the NY forum and sometimes in the NJ forum. On an occasion or two I might have had something to contribute to a forum of one of the other states.

On the photo of the elevator in Grand Central Terminal - you got it right. It is known as a "round elevator floor indicator dial".

Speaking of Grand Central Terminal - you might be interested to know that the current building is actually the 3rd building to occupy that site. The first was called Grand Central Depot which opened in 1871. It was rebuilt/replaced by a larger building with greater capacity called Grand Central Station which opened in 1900. The current building opened in 1913. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ntral_Terminal (there are some photos of the older buildings on the wiki page). It should be noted that while the railroad building is called Grand Central Terminal, the subway station(s) are called Grand Central Station. I say stations because you have the original 1904 station which became part of the 42nd St Shuttle in 1918 and is located under 42nd St between Vanderbilt and Madison Avenues, and then you have the Lexington Avenue line station opened in 1918 and is actually diagonally situated from Park Avenue across 42nd St to Lexington Avenue. However, lots of people (including our local news people) get the names mixed up in that they call the terminal Grand Central Station. But in truth most people just say Grand Central for all of it and the message gets across.

Staying in Grand Central for a little more. You mentioned the slightly eerie lower level. There are a few more levels below which contain support (mechanical, electrical etc) structures for the building and railroad (but not the subway which has its own support structure). Way down deep (175 feet) there are 4 more tracks - 2 each on 2 levels - for Long Island Railroad trains which opened in January 2023. It is formally called Grand Central Madison but I call it 'The Grand Central Cavern' because that it is what it looks like to me.

As to the liquor sales - it varies from state to state. In NY and NJ supermarkets can sell beer and lower alcohol content drinks (used to be called "wine coolers" years ago). Otherwise wine and other alcoholic drinks must be sold in licensed liquor stores. In Massachusetts their laws allow grocery, package, and convenience stores to sell liquor, wine, and beer.

I found that photo of the building with the outside staircase quite interesting. My guess is that the building is not that old possibly 25 years or less and that the apartment that the staircase serves is built as a bi-level one. However, judging from the child-safety bars on the lower windows in the window frames I would say that while fully functional that staircase is more, as you said, for design (and a higher cost for rent or purchase).

You walked from the Chrysler Building (42nd-43rd St) down to Empire State (34th St) and then to Flatiron (23rd St)? Nice. You got in a good mile or so of walking in that. I have done that a few times. It is a good thing the weather was very favorable. It is a shame though that your visit was after Labor Day (in September), you could have seen the 'portal' located next to the Flatiron Building which was streaming a live picture (but no audio) from a similar type street area in Dublin, Ireland.

Of course there are hills outside of Central Park (By the way - in that photo I think your son was doing most of the work). There are lots of them in the northern part of Manhattan. I'll give a quick example - 155th St & St. Nicholas Avenue is about 75 feet or more above 155th St & Frederick Douglass Boulevard (formerly 8th Avenue). To get from one to the other you have to use a steep staircase. I tried it once - both up and then down (thankfully I was much younger then).

One more thing - Frozen Custard Fries? Other than from Shake Shack no one has ever heard of that. I ate once at a Shake Shack - I won't again. Frozen Custard is a nice snack but in fries form - eeewwwwww.

paulrook7717

Thanks, nycguy10002!

Loved all the details on Grand Central and the NYC hills—I had no idea about the “cavern” levels for the LIRR.

Quick question: Have you ever been to Morning Glory Farm on Martha’s Vineyard? It’s a cool spot with fresh produce and a fun food truck.

Nautiker

_thanks_! it's not even that expensive, I'll consider putting it on my Christmas wish list! as said before: there are just so many quality buildings you hardly ever hear/read about...
only disadvantage: they really ought to schedule a fresh edition

Nautiker

oh, he got spoiled plenty!
I am coming to this one, you'll just have to wait a little longer..

Nautiker

but it's not even noon! the only good thing about that time lag: we were usually awake at 6am (12pm at home) and ready to leave before 8am. this said, despite the ample amount of time we had in this city (reminder: 4 full, 2x 1/2 days) we covered too much ground at too quick a pace. and my MIL is not known for idling, either...

[/QUOTE]On the photo of the elevator in Grand Central Terminal - you got it right. It is known as a "round elevator floor indicator dial"[/QUOTE]

cliché has it we Germans turn everything into compund words, so I'll give you a 'Fahrstuhlstockwerksrundanzeiger' for that.

and speaking of Grand Central: it really is a cathedral. any of your writers ever considered putting a hunchback or some other disfigured person in there and turn it into a novel?

it's a shame there are no longer long distance trains departing from there, there should be a direct transcontinental one from New York to San Francisco, without the need to change in Chicago...

too bad I didn't knew about the Madison station, made me curious now, this building really is a maze...

getting older, I start seeing the upsides of having strong liquor in dedicated stores only, otherwise it is just so very accessible (like over here).

mmmh, I would say that building is slightly older, maybe even late 1980ies - but that doesn't help us, still a mystery. floors look awfully narrow, too

the portal that was shut down so quickly? I read about it...

now that you mention other hills, I recall seeing several staircases in Tudor City, but that's day 3 already...

and maybe it isn't 'frozen fries' but the 'fries' shakes' further to the right? with these stylish listings, you never know where they expect you to put the hyphens *shrugs*

janisj

Uh - nope -- that is just the middle of the sign. It reads like this: Burgers - Frozen Custard - Fries - Shakes - Hot Dogs - Cones.

nycguy10002

janis, I know, I know. I was trying make a bit of humor out of Shake Shack's poor design and placement of signage. I guess I should have tried harder.

nycguy10002

paulrook, you're welcome and while I am at it - Welcome to Fodor's.

No, I have not been further northward than the Boston and Salem areas of Massachusetts

janisj

UM -- my bad . . . I usually get sarcasm but my radar must have been down

Nautiker

wanted to avoid those typical tourist snapshots, however reflecting my earlier posts, obviously there is a prettier post-war non-high-rise in Manhattan, so kudos Mr Wright. (when I was young, I once got gifted a Frank Lloyd Wright cut-and-assemble paper model of Robie House in Chicago - actually much too difficult for my age, but got me hooked...)


boy gets spoiled part I: not sure you are aware, but the Tesla Cybertruck (currently) has no certification for Europe, so the kids over here all only know it from the media. I had looked up the opening times of the Tesla Showroom in Chelsea, however real-life beat me to it. pure chance encounter, a few minutes after we had spotted it, it drove away. boy very much delighted.



boy gets spoiled, part II: just a few minutes later, slightly north of the Guggenheim, we came across this Lamborghini. even better: the owner (boy half my age) noticed us and let my son take a seat behind the wheel for a moment! boy even more delighted...



fast forwarding past Metropolitan Museum, albeit: we needed to head for the restrooms, located behind a side entrance, where there were also educational facilites for school-groups etc, and they had lined the walls with children's art. now my wife is an elementary school arts teacher and therefore I am aware just what kids are capable to achieve, starting from an early age, and what was on display here was really excellent (well, they won't put up just any pic I guess) - my photos turned out rubbish, so I am not posting, but next time you go to the loo there consider giving the kids' art a closer look, it's worth it. imo arts is much undervalued at schools and I am sorry that it is so often neglected (our kids barely got much arts education so far, sigh...)

you all know what Central Park looks like, so I spare you the squirrels, but this guy stopped me in my tracks: Friedrich Schiller? what he's supposed to do here? he has definitely never visited America and I am not aware of _any_ relations whatsoever. maybe some local guy with the same name? I looked it up at home and was surprised: apparently, it's the _first_ monument added to Central Park: "The monument to Schiller was one of several donated by groups of European immigrants who sought to see themselves represented in the City’s premier public space, to signal their inclusion in American life." ( https://www.centralparknyc.org/locat...f-von-schiller ). it now gives me some food for thought: I wonder how nowadays society would react if a group of immigrants decided something similar: placing a bust of their national poet in a most prominent public space. I would love to say it would be welcome, yet given the current debate on immigration and inclusion, my honest answer is that I do not know. (I can only answer for my own country).


ah, well, one picture of Central Park. when I showed this to my father, he was quite baffled: he last visited New York in the late Sixties (the WTC was still under construction), and the skyline towards the park was notably different then what baffled _me_ actually was the Nordstrom Tower/Central Park Tower: to me, the 'minimal aesthetic' approach more of translates to triviality and blandness. once I turned my view away from the building, I had instantly forgotten what it looked like. at a cost $ 3 billion, I would expect a building to make a longer lasting impact on my memory, but then I am not the target group.

nycguy10002

Very, very nice.

There is an old saying that doesn't get used much these days: "Anything can happen in New York" (to which I add the words: "especially when you don't expect it.

The encounters you mentioned about your son and the Tesla and later on the Lamborghini certainly fit that saying (as you told us he likes luxury cars). I would also include the children's artwork at the Met Museum and your wife being a elementary school arts teacher. There are just some things you can't plan for.

Fra_Diavolo

It's not only Schiller! There's a bust of another celebrated German, Alexander von Humboldt, on Central Park West at West 77th Street. Fittingly, it's just down from the Natural History Museum.

Nautiker

often, 'the unplanned' are the things most rewarding travelling for. one has to try to create as many situations as possible that might induce such occurences. and given that all the big endeavors and discoveries have already been done, the rest are merely stopgaps and solatiums. ;-)

Nautiker

didn't spot him, yet at least Humboldt visited the US (though not NY afaik)!

Nautiker

oh my, if I don't speed up here, we won't be finished before Christmas - please let me know if I tire you!

we had decided to put the Rockefeller Center at the end of day two: on the one hand to culminate our first full day, on the other to have wiggle room in case the weather might turn out less than perfect, so we could switch to another day - but then the sky could not have been fairer and we went. like many tourists, our objective was to arrive just before sunset, take in the views and then admire the city lights. my SIL had warned that there would presumably slow moving queues and lots of delays and therefore urged to pick a slot as early as possible, which translated into something like 4.45pm (with sunset being 6.15pm...). on the plus side, we got there before the crowds and the whole ascent was as punctual, quick and smooth as one could wish for, probably less than 15mins (incl a mandatory video show). as a downside, this elevator ride cost our group of 6 quite exactly $ 350, which I deem quite much, but then they know they can just ask that price - the views really are stunning! sorry, you will have to cope with some standard tourist pics now: (how often do you locals venture to climb up one of those viewpoints to check how your city has changed?)


it is funny that the JP Morgan Chase is even more impressive when you are already high up and you realise that it's still so much taller than the position you are in! (fun fact: at 259 metres, the Rockefeller Center is precisely just as high as the highest building in Germany) with a scheduled heigth of 423 metres, we are looking at a skyscraper on top of another skyscraper here...




found a positive thing to say about the Nordstrom Tower: 'does reflect sky, clouds and sunlight nicely'




what fascinates me about this skyline is that it appears so everlasting and ever-changing at the same time...




while waiting for dusk, we mused about the different types of window cleaning rigs we could spot - and sometimes could not spot! are there skyscrapers in NY that don't wash their windows?!? or do they just open the windows and lean out!?! on more funny thing: the 'standard' water towers discretely hidden behind concealing walls...


it started to get busy fast now, and the 'best' places filled up quickly with people seeming determined to defend their ground until midnight - however at a closer look it was actually quite a gentle crowd: those adamant to capture from their vantage points every single nuance of dusk often freely stepped aside for those just longing to take a quick snap. therefore it was a constant shuffle, but everyone appeared quite happy with this arrangement. I must admit I am torn about these motifs: while they are spectacular to experience, I am often at a loss about what to do with the pictures. like sunsets, rainbows and other phenomena like northern lights, once you turn them into a wallpaper or print, the magic dissolves and they turn into kitsch. *shrugs*




interposed question: can anyone explain to me why there's a Dutch flag atop the Bloomberg Building? google yielded no quick answer. it seems the tip can display all sorts of colours, yet most often it's just striped red/white/blue... (and Bloomberg might sound Dutch, but isn't)
(another fun thing to do in order to pass time was trying to spot empty floors - there were surprisingly many!)




our real problem now was the time lag PLUS spending a full day in the city. I don't have those specific apps on my phone but my daughter told me she had racked up more than 22.000 steps that day. it was 6.30pm (i.e. 0.30am 'at home') and though I would have _loved_ to spend longer up there, it just wasn't feasible. we even took the subway for a single stop from Rockefeller to Bryant Park and I am not sure the kids weren't asleep already before(!) they hit the cushions... *grimace emoji*

nycguy10002

Great skyscraper photos (day and night versions).

You asked: "(how often do you locals venture to climb up one of those viewpoints to check how your city has changed?)"
- I would say not very often. We tend to spend more time looking at ground level than wondering about what is up above. It is also easier to know which building is which way down on the ground, That doesn't mean we don't appreciate the views when we do see them (one way or another). One of our local TV stations (WNBC Channel 4) uses live views of the upper portions of buildings very often as background for newscasts (the newscasters sit at their desk and the views are behind them). This station is located in 30 Rockefeller Plaza and has multiple cameras mounted on the Observation Deck of the building.

...are there skyscrapers in NY that don't wash their windows?!? or do they just open the windows and lean out!?!"I

No to the first part and in older buildings where the windows do open the answer is yes.

In older buildings window washing contractors still use the manual scaffolds on ropes to lower and raise themselves along the outside of those buildings. As an aside - every couple of years or so there is a news report of one these rigs failing and the Fire Department has to go and rescue those workers (many time opening a window, if it opens, or breaking the window if it doesn't.
And believe or not there are still some older buildings where the windows open in one way or another (some swing in on hinges (usually top inward) located in the window frame, some can swing inward or outward.

Why does the top floors of the Bloomberg Building get lit up in Red, White and Blue? Well, they are the colors of the United States - need I say more?

Nautiker

sorry, a delay was necessary, I just can't keep up the pace...

well, window cleaner in Manhattan is something I would not like doing. I wonder whether they get at least paid well.

"Why does the top floors of the Bloomberg Building get lit up in Red, White and Blue? Well, they are the colors of the United States - need I say more?" - while I obviously cannot deny this, the same applies to so many other countries in the world, from Taiwan via France to Chile. arranging the colours in stripes just does not make an obvious connection to me, the LEDs ought to be able to show a more distinct display, shouldn't they?


so, it's
Day Three, October 16th

while we had decided to spend rather little time in museums on this trip, my MIL had insisted we visit the UN. I was a bit reluctant, since I consider organisations like this a topic that usually translates weakly into an organised tourist visit. the visitor's website had been very discouraging in bringing bags and backpags, therefore we arrived empty handed, only to discover that the 'only very small bags allowed'-rule actually gave leeway up to the ample size of messenger bags... there would have been a German language tour, alas we realised too late, thus stuck with an English one. first thing to notice: maybe one of the nicest views of the Chrysler Building:
guided tours are a tightrope act: guides do the same tours day in day out, like assembly-line workers, it's often just a small step to just reel off your text. ours did a good job trying to engage the group, still, it's difficult to elaborate beyond basic stuff when you have less than 60 mins. this display we found quite moving: _current_ amount spent on military worldwide, starting _each day_ at midnight. I forgot to ask the guide that the clock display likely should be expanded by a digit to keep up. I am not too naive to realise we cannot do without military and that it's a compilation of worldwide expenses, still, I often wonder what else one could accomplish with that amount of money


I didn't know that much of the UN is basically a warehouse for presents by world's governments. some are on display, some are famous (like the Knotted Gun in the courtyard), probably many are stored someplace, some are just awful. here'a a rare on I enjoyed, from Benin:



well, it _is_ nice to whiz through the great Assembly Hall, even if it's just high up on the visitor's balcony, but it doesn't tell you a lot about the limits and struggles of this organisation. view from outside Assembly Hall, down to the lobby.
I considered it funny that the UN has its own merch shop, however I was disappointed to find their marketing board completely missed out on the most obvious opportunities for in-house brands: 'UNread' (new books on world politics), 'UNorganised' (desktop accesoires), 'UNderwear' (bodywear fashion line) and so on - where can I apply?

so, the 'no bags' rule had resulted into us leaving everything at the hotel (a mile away). since our next objective was taking the ferry from nearby E35th pier to Brooklyn, two of us hurried back to fetch our stuff, while the others ambled towards East River and bought the tickets.

right next to the UN, a building was being enclosed by scaffoldings, and the safety nets that were being pulled up gave it the air of giant veils


nearby: giant bricks by the NYPD




on our way back: Chanin Building near Grand Central, would have loved to look closer, but too much in a hurry



tbc

Madam397

Years ago I worked in the Chanin Building. It was always a treat to come to work and see the lobby area. The ground floor store that appears to be for rent was in my day, a Howard Johnson restaurant. I also once worked at 630 Fifth Avenue and the window overlooked the skating rink and the tree. Years ago the tree lighting wasn't a major televised spectacle. You looked out the window and the tree was lit, people in buildings that overlooked the area flicked the lights on and off. I cannot recall what government agency was in the building or from what country but there was visible security that anyone noticing would easily be aware of. Not so when I worked in an office building on Second Avenue directly underneath the Israeli Consulate. I am sure that there was security but the building lobby and elevators were open to anyone and anyone could have taken an elevator to my floor and back then it seemed a bit lax to me.